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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  August 17, 2014 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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and an unarmed teen. voices are raised in song, michael brown's parents are there, his teachers are there. the reverent jesse jackson, also there inside his -- there is also a line outside of people not ability to get in. gunfire and seven arrests on the streets. police say a protester is in critical condition at this hour after being shot in the chest, but it is not known at this point who shot that protester. the curl fuss -- the justice department says a second autopsy
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on michael brown's body. we do not have a reporters on the ground. we'll get back to him as soon as we do. it's on the obama -- they have been fully briefed. today the justice department orders another autopsy, as i want, to be conducted on the body. in the be done by a federal medical examiner, likely a military -- that is what we're told, at the request of michael brown's family. this will not replace the state autopsy. our senior white house correspondent traveling with the president, so first, jim, to you, how closely are they following it in the he is on vacation, and the president is
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we have been told that the president was briefed earlier this morning in that community, and also talking with the naacp, and talking to the -- and she's been keeping the president up to speed on those developments, but rest assured, the president will be more involved -- the white house will be more involved in the situation in ferguson for the coming days. he will be briefed by eric holder, when he gets to the white house. the president is leaving martha's vineyard. he arriving back at the white house. and he's going to be back at the white house for the next couple days. >> and in terms of those meetings, i know he's going to have a full, full day tomorrow.
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we know he'll be briefed by eric holder. >> as you know, over the weekend there is thor -- to help them retake the mosul dam. the president send what they call a war powers left to the speaker yawn boehner just today, notifying them, giving that leech notification over the weekend, and in that notification, it says basically what the administration's explanation is and this is not an expansion -- that it's really in keeps with the mix. protected u.s. personnel, the believe being that had that dam
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broken, it could have at the at risk. in addition to meeting with vice president biden. so definitely a -- he's going to have a lot on his agenda. >> absolutely, poppy. in the last ten minutes or so, trying to make it clear, look, these still not an expansion of our mission, we doing this to protect the people on the ground. appreciate the reporting from martha's vineyard. let's go, we do have ed lavandera who's on the ground. i believe you are outside. these are all people that could not even get inside that rally. what is your sense on the ground there? >> it's been a staggering turnout for this unity rally. there's only about 1300 seats in the sanctuary, just a few miles
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away from where michael brown was killed last weekend. and fredricka, i would say there's probably close to 2,000 people, there's a local radio station that's started to pump out audio from inside the sanctuary, so the crowd's gathered around. it's an unbelievable scene. we continue to see people to flock here this afternoon. inside the service it's been very emotional, very strong words, angry at times, several speakers talking about how michael brown, quote, was executed, but the service started off with captain ron johnson who for many people has been seen as a savior in the last few days. he's the state highway police captain put in charge of security. for many of the residents in ferguson, he's been a breath of fresh air here on the streets.
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>> because when this is over i'm going to go into my son's room, my black got tattoos on his arms, but that's my baby. >> well all 5u8 tore thanks the browns, because michael will make it better for our sons, so they can be better black men, so they can be better black women. for me so i can be a better
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black father. you could hear capital the speaker who have been speaking out here this afternoon. michael brown's parents are there, but they are not speaking, but they did say through their attorneys who spoke briefly, they thanked everyone for their support, and obviously urged people to continue -- and that is on the minds of empeople who i have spoken with, as we've seen repeatedly the last week. where the protests have become dangerous, the people cognizant of how people around the world and around the country are watching. they hope the images are what stands out and overshadows the violence and the danger that they have seen in the overnight hours. >> because i do know, ed, we did hearing ron johnson say he was
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disappointed. a lot of people were peaceful, but there were seven arrests. there was one american shot, but it's not known by whom. they did have to use some tear gas, for example, so we will certainly see what transpires tonight. what are people telling you on the ground there, ed, about whether they think this curfew is a good idea? >> reporter: you know, there are a lot of people who did not like the idea of this curfew it will continue, as the curfew time was approaches, there were a lot of people who voluntary started leaving the scene early. it seems like in a way of making it easier. for the police and the security forces to do their job. poppy? >> ed, i appreciate the reporting. we're going to listen to martin luther king iii speaking at this rally for michael brown.
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>> as it relates to something called finality. i remember my father preaching a sermon one time about death. he talked about one -- it just popped in my mind. i was 10-year-old. when my dad was gunned down. i was -- i was 15 when my grandmother was gunned down in the church by praying the lord's prayer while i don't understand losing the child, i understand losing a loved one. all of us should understand losing a loved one. the stage has set, and today and
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forever people will be talking about michael brown. that is for sure. what this commune chooses to do. this is the time for america to create opportunities. in communities all across this county and this country, there is no shortage of resources. it's just a short an, now maybe there was a shortage of a will you see, when we think about this thing and we think about victims, victor hugo used to say wherever this is darkness, crimes will occur, but the guilty one is not merely he who created the crime, but those who created the darkness.
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i hope you understand, when we create a climate, when we create training much of what we see will go away. that's only one our police departments need sensitivity and diversity training. when you understand how to interact, because every ethnic group is different, and every ethnic group has made a contribution to this nation. now, finally i want to say, just before i go to my seat, because i wanted to be here and will be
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back again and again why? because my dad used to say or destinies are sort of tied together. i can't be what i ought to be and tell you what you ought to be. you can't bet what you ought to be until i am what i ought to be. our destinies are truly tied together. more and more people will be coming to st. louis, and the leadership here has encouraged d not just justice, but justice perhaps won't come unless there is an independent prosecutor. this is not martin king, this is what the community has said. and the current prosecutor as demonstrated bias. therefore -- he should -- if he
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is fair and right. but that only happens when one of the things you do is sign a petition that's online that others will be talking about. bay we, and as i say america is watches, and the world, and as rev said, people are really embarrassed. we go all over the world promoting democrat sick and fairness, yet we're not even creating democracy in our own communities. because many not all, but some police departments are not conducting themselves in the ways they could. so let me rush to tell you, do not in any ways tire, why?
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because we've come much too far from where we started. you know, no one ever told any of us that our roads would be easy but i know our got did not bring any of us this far to leave us. justice can and will come, but st. louis county, ferguson you must continue to stand add be heard. god bless you. what has now been a lengthy rally for michael brown in the wake of his death. we are going to continue tracking that. just taking the podium there. we will continue to track that.
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quick break, but coming up next, a question that many are asking -- what will it take to stop incidents like the one in ferguson, missouri. one of our experts weighs in, also the fight to retake a very critical dam in raw you can from isis militants. that's next. [ brian ] in a race, it's about getting to the finish line. in life, it's how you get there that matters most. it's important to know the difference. like when i found out i had a blood clot in my leg. my doctor said that it could travel to my lungs and become an even bigger problem. and that i had to take action. so he talked to me about xarelto®. [ male announcer ] xarelto® is the first oral prescription blood thinner proven to treat and help prevent dvt and pe that doesn't require regular blood monitoring or changes to your diet. [ brian ] for a prior dvt i took warfarin, which required routine blood testing and dietary restrictions.
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so how can peace return to the tense streets of ferguson, missouri? people are still angry after an unarmed teenager was shot and killed by a police officer a week ago. police in riot gear faced angry protesters last night. congressman john lewis, who endured a police beating when he marched more than 50 years ago says what is happening in ferguson is a disgrace. >> we have to get police officers, local elected officials to respect the dignity and worth of every human being form it's a shame and disgrace that in a city that's almost 70% african-american to have only three african-american police officers. ferguson, it's not in the american south, but we're doing much better in the small towns and cities in georgia and alabama and mississippi.
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it's shameful. this is a disgrace. we must teach people the way of peace, the way of love, the way of nonviolence, but we cannot have peace and order without justice. >> i want to bring if re tired u.s. army lieutenant russel honore. you will remember him well. thank you for being with us. we appreciate it. >> good evening. >> what do you make of the congressman's comments? does he have a point? >> well, i think he's talking about some enduring things that are challenges in communities around the country, which speaks to the point of how will we work our way out of this crisis, which speaks to a need for a strategic message coming from the state and the federal government to how we get back to normal and what it's going to take to do that and what could be some defining things, poppy,
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like the government, community organized memorial service, then a time line by the state and federal government to have some pronouncements on initial findings, but at some point in time, how do you get back to normal? they're going to have to clean that up in some type of all of government strategic message. they certainly can't live it on the back of the commander on the ground to create all of that. all of government now needs to step up. >> you know, when you talk about this curfews that went in place, you have some really important points that you think are critical to making it work, because what we saw last night, captain ron johnson said he was disappointed. we saw seven arrests, saw some tear gas that officers used. what needs to be clarified to try to make this curfew work? >> community, communication on local television, repetitive repeating what the purpose of
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the curfew. people have a right to assemble. inside that the government has a responsibility by the constitution to maintain safe and security environment for everybody in the community. people and property. here comes the rub -- when the government decides we're going to put a curfew in in order to enforce safety and security, people said we're not happy with the outcome, so then you can get into civil disobedience. we're going to not follow the curfews until we get something. in this case the people continue to call for something that resembles, what is the justice plan? i think a part of the strategic communications is the government beyond captain ron johnson -- he's doing a great job -- must figure out what is that promise here so people can move on. people have not heard something that inspired them to move on. this thing is still fresh and i think they're going to have to continue to communicate that
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this is about safety and security, and it's not punishment. a curfew cannot be looked at as punishment. it has to be emphasized this is for the safety and security of the community at some point in time the kids have to go back to school, transition out of this, and the politicians will have to figure that out, poppy. >> many of them are going to school as early as starting tomorrow. when you hear from the brown family through their lawyers, have said they want people to follow this curfew, that is their hope that there would be peace and calm on the streets. when you talk about someone else coming in to try to help with that outside of the local police there, outside of captain ron johnson, who could that be, in your opinion? >> cut, dropped. we dropped. >> it sounds like he can't hear me anymore. the perspective from general honore is very helpful for us to
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hear. we appreciate him joining us. we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. your 16-year-old daughter
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i'm glad you can hear me now. the question i was asking before we went to break is this -- you suggested someone else should perhaps come on the ground to help the situation frismt your experience, who would be the best person to do that? >> i think somebody designated by the governor or senior elected official who can work with the captain and work on communicating and going through the community and getting people's concerns and pulling that together in a strategic communications message that describes to the people that this thing -- that justice will be done in a courtroom and the political issues in the community will be solved in the ballot box. for the time being we've got to address the concerns of people. if you look at this curfew tonight, the people continue to push back on the armored vehicles, yet each night there's a problem the armored vehicles show up. why are they doing that? they're still doing things that they don't have to do that incite the people, but they still can control the crowds.
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there's just some things to get on message with and be consistent in order to build confident. and what is that big event that will recognize this young man, a community event. when the business community is going to step up. if there's another service there should be tellen trons so people can see, a city event that goes all the way into st. louis, people with means that can help this family heal and move on toward justice. >> that's an interesting idea. you know, when you do, as you brought up these armored vehicles, this is riot gear, some of these message that is we used in war brought onto the streets of ferguson, we saw some again last night, isn't a lot of this about the perception and how you approach people? what you're wearing, what you're holding? what do you think would be most effective? >> well, i've had this experience with this in south korea with demonstrations of over 100,000 people, and the
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tactics that are used by the south korean services up front they have policemen with shields, a second line with shields, then a third line of policemen with shields. you don't see any guns. when you're doing a civil -- or disobedience control, there are no guns up front. it appeared that we -- our solution -- and our doctrine inside our police department is that you move the guns up. if you're leading with a s.w.a.t. team, controlling a civil disobedience, you're in trouble. you've got an attack mechanism up front when you should be having a control mechanism up front and be able to control the crowd without pointing guns at them. >> we appreciate you joining us lieutenant general russel honore. glad we could have you on the program tonight. thank you for being with us. >> good day. we're going to continue this conversation with two of our political commentator, mark lament hill and ben furling son.
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know. thank you both. ben is in dallas, mark is in ferguson, missouri. i want you to listen to remarks from a guest i spoke to. he says this incident has been blown out of proportion. listen. >> america is not the racist enclave that everybody says that it is, that the cops are not targeting black people, neither are white folks. i asked you a second ago why don't you give diversity training to the people going to the football game. we meld every single day. as part of the mosaic every day in multiple ways. just as the police help people every single day, but we take a situation like this, we blow it out of proportion, because that's what happened, we want to set the narrative that once side is good, the other side is bad, and that is what's bad. >> mark lamont hill, you're in ferguson, you just left the rally there.
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is this situation being blown out of proportion? >> absolutely not. you know, the energy here in ferguson is very much reflective of what we see around the country, black and brown people saying we have had enough. this isn't about one isolated incident. this is about black bodies being vulnerable in every single day. and that's why you see this reaction. the fact that police haven't been transparent. i was out here last night and had tear gas shot at me. there's no way we can see this as anything other than a crisis that warrants this level of attention. >> you had tear gas shot at you? for what? >> we were out here -- we were out here beyond midnight, peaceful protesting, though. there was no violence, no antagonism, peacefully protesting, hands up, don't shoot the crowd. police moved forward in their military-style vehicle, though helped tear gas wasn't going to be shot. another kid was shot, not by
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police, but i'm saying that's the level of confusion that came after the tear gas was fired. it was a very, very ugly place. >> ben, to you, also said to me last night in our conversation, look, diversity training is not what is needed here. that is frankly not the solution. having faith leaders go out and try to work the community, not the solution. what is your take? what is the solution? >> mark just brought up a huge point. i would challenge mark and others to obey what they're trying to do to try to restore order. if you want to cause problems, if you want this to continue to spiral out of control, stay out past midnight and don't respect the authorities. the african-americans have been put in charge of the investigation, to regain truth, yet you're still not listening to them. some of the people i think are wanting to have this excitement, wanting to have this rage, and wanting to have this continue
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on, when the governor i think did the right thing. he said here is a man we'll put in charge, an african-american man that can talk with the community, to go out and try to calm this down and be peaceful, yes mark acts like he's a victim when he's the one that broke the rule last night after midnight, saying just because they're peaceful, that doesn't mean you get to break the rules. as long as we continue to have this i think we'll have problems. >> mark? >> it also doesn't mean that we should invite -- or that it should be warranting military-style response. again, this is the whole problem with michael brown. >> because you're antagonizing -- >> let me finish the point. being black in public space is an antagonism in and of itself. mike all brown was just walking down the street. martin luther king violated -- >> police have said -- >> just tosh clear -- >> we always push back.
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>> let me say something, ben. to be clear to mark's point, police did say that overnight no shot was fired by police overnight. i want to make that clear. >> correct, absolutely. >> mark, this is an important question. there's been a lot of talk about the 53-member police force in ifering son that has three african-americans on it. is it important, do you think, to have more black police officers as part of that force? >> i don't have a problem with that. my concern is this -- are we saying that we want segregation? because that's the only way it will be fair in minority communities? i thought we didn't want to have segregation saying that offer african-american cops can police -- >> that's not the point. >> let me finish. i don't think it's funny. this is my point. they wanted to have -- >> i think -- >> let me finish. >> police let ben finish.
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>> mark, many in the african-american communities are saying you want african-americans in charge. you have one in charge, and you absolutely do not obey him by staying after midnight and acting like a victim when tear gas is shot. my point is what difference does it make if it's a white cop? it sounds like you're not going to listen to him, either? >> mark, to you. does the police force there need to have more african-american members? or is it not about what race you are as part of the police force? is it did policing in a way and having more communication is what we've heard is needed between the community members and the police? >> i apologize for interrupting ben. there's a time delay. i would never interrupt my dear friend ben ferguson. i think black people didn't march so they could be beaten by black force. we don't want a police force that will replicate. i don't want that.
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i want black cops who are well trained. it's entirely possible to have an all-white police force that can engage in community policing that doesn't violate people's rights and respects the community. but still in a town that's 70% black it's mind-boggling that there's only three black policemen on the force. this is a broader international issue that we have to deal with. >> here's my thing do you want segregation? are you saying it needs to be definitely proportionate to the african-american population, which is segregation? >> it's not about segregation. having black people in a black town as police officers isn't segregation. it's reflective of the needs of community. white officers often have been insensitive to the needs and culture and practices of black people. but again black officers often do the same thing. putting a black person does not
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make black people feel better. we're not advocating for different police. we're advocating for better police. >> you know what i think is clear? i want you to both stick around. we're going to talk more about this, and we're going to talk about the situation from the united states and iraq, about you what i think everyone agrees on is there needs to be a lot more and a lot better communication between the police force and the people on the ground there. we'll be right back after a quick break. as i said we're going to talk about this as the u.s. conducts air strikes in an ever to retake a strategic dam in iraq. is it going to be enough? how much will this situation escalate? how much is the u.s. going to get involved? our experts weigh in, next. (son) oh no... can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything. i fixed it! (dad) that's why i got a subaru legacy.
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turning now to the crisis in iraq, a fast and furious battle is raging right now for control of the mosul dam. u.s. forces conducted 14 air strikes against isis targets in addition to several justice as kurdish forces are attempting to retake that dam. so far it seems like the information is working. a spokesman says they had taken over the eastern side of the dam. this fierce battle rages on the western side.
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the challenge to retake this dam without damaging is is very daunting. if the dam is compromised cities from mosul all the way down to baghdad could be flooded. i threat from isis is growing exponential. let's bring in some experts to talk about it. doug olivant, and also bob baer, doug you served as director for iraq, really at the national security council under both president bush and under president obama. so you know the president's thinking on this. it was just over a week ago when president obama said i will not allow the united states to be dragged in to fighting another war in iraq. is that how you read this situation? >> i don't think the united states is going to fight a war in iraq, but it may we support someone else's fight. i think that's what we're seeing here. we have not only kurdish forces but an iraqi army brigade that
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are closing. we've seen over the past week so, frankly neither of these forces have performed very well, both the iraqe army and kurdish forces didn't fare well. now with u.s. airpower supporting them, taking out the major targets, that may 'low them to move forward and secure the mosul dam, which as you point out is not only a source of water and power, but also has the able to be used as a weapon if it's destroyed. >> you also said you thought the administration is finding loopholes to fight isis like this, while still sticking to what they have said in the narrative, that this is to protect people on the ground. >> if we look at all president's justifications, he says it's about protecting our soldiers and diplomats at our embassy in baghdad. and consulate in erbil. that allows us to get around legal restrictions, and allows us to pretend, frankly.
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i think what we're seeing is the administration wants to contain isis and not let it expand further until an iraqi government is 678d. until then i think we'll see these pin pricks, and perhaps continue to protect thia cydis. >> bob, is the united states effectively combatting isis right now, or do you think this is something that isis can last through and power beyond? >> poppy, this isn't going to turn the tide? this is a guerrilla force, can move very quickly. this this is a guerilla force. can move very quickly. if they drive them away from the dam and they probably will, you will see them pop up some place else toward baghdad, for instance, or syria, in fact. this campaign is not going to be won from the air. you're going to need the people
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on the ground, the iraqis, or the syrians, to crush them and it's the only way it's gonna work. and frankly, the u.s. getting too deeply involved in this will only help isis in the end because it will look like a war between islam and the united states, which we don't want it to become. >> well, that's very important point. and it begs the question, you don't want the sunnis to think that the united states is engaging in an anti-sunny war. so, how do you -- how do you best work with those on the ground to prevent that? >> well, poppy, i could be up front on this, i'm trying to help some sunni tribal leaders get to the united states. we have been ignoring them for a couple years now. we had had no confidence in them. but now they, themselves, are worried and they want to work with the united states and fight this battle and i think it's time we engage with them more and see if there is the possibility of a second awakening. this may be fantastical, but they are offering -- they are handing out, you know, they are
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coming us to and asking for help and i think it's -- we should take a look at. this again, we don't want american troops in there. and, you know, obama right now is panicked about the situation there and they've called up joint special operations command, delta force and s.e.a.l.s, called back to duty for possibly going to iraq. it depends how bad it gets. >> to you, doug, what do you think can be learned from the non-intervention, the air strikes that we didn't see happen in syria when we knew that isis was a threat there? what can be learned? and also there have been some experts that are saying, look, we actually need air strikes at the same time in some of these target he is in syria as well. do you agree with that? >> we are certainly caught on the hofrns a dilemma here. we don't want to intervene in iraq because it's iraq and don't want to intervene in syria because the situation is so complicated in that three- or four-sided war, but i think ber we are going to end up being drug into t we have not taken isis seriously enough there were early reporting, remember when
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mosul fell, mony who were saying this is a sunni uprising against an authoritarian government in baghdad. then they attacked irbil. we can see this didn't suspect about a sunni uprising this is a about a terrorist group that has very real goals to take over the entire region. now, whether they are capable of doing that is not clear but they sure had a good couple of months and i think the president is now taking them very seriously. now, he doesn't want to go back to iraq, but on the other hanged her doesn't want there to be a terrorist safe haven either and we are now in the place where there is a terrorist safe haven inside iraq. what are you gonna do? >> what about syria, before we wrap up quickly. do you think the u.s. should introduce limited air strikes in syria? >> you cannot defeat isis if you don't engage them in depth, across iraq and syria and anywhere else that they go to. if you are not attacking them comprehensively, just allowing them to have sanctuary and giving them a place to retreat to. >> doug and bob, thank you both for joining us. thank you. >> thank you very much, poppy. still to come here in the
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welcome back. another night of protests in ferguson, missouri. one person shot, seven people arrested. police were out in force during a midnight to 5 a.m. curfew, even fired tear gas into the crowd to try to reach that critically wounded gunshot victim. the shooter has not yet been caught. so, where do we go from sneer what can we expect tonight when another curfew will be in effect? joining me to talk about all of this is civil and human rights activist, the reverend markell hutchins. thank you for being with us, sir, we appreciate it. >> great to be with you. >> how does the community here rebuilt build trust? what do they need? some people have been saying, we heard from lieutenant russell honor ray saying we need someone to come in from the government,
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outside body to be there to help quell attention the tensions. >> i think local leadership is critically important in these situations. i agree with the general in some sense that local leaders are often times restricted by the relationship that they have within those communities. i don't think under any circumstances, the local district attorney and the local police department can effectively investigate what happened to michael brown. so i think it's a combination of local leadership and those from the outside, particularly from governmental entities, working with community leaders and police to figure out how to move forward in this situation. >> what needs to be done most, from what you've been seeing on the ground unfold the last week what is needed most? >> i think one of the things that is critically important is people in that community have got to step up and take responsibility, really take leadership in the community itself. i think the police chief there
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in ferguson really needs to begin to take a back seat. had he done some very specific things in those early days, for example, the police chief stepped forward and called for a meeting of community leaders, religious lead, civic leaders at city hall with the mayor in the hours immediately following the shooting, had the police chief announce in these conversations that he was going to hire and retain a more diverse workforce, more closely resembles the racial demographics of a community, we probably would not have seen the kind of pandemonium and chaos that we are seeing now. >> i want to talk about it that. we just had marc lamont hill and ben ferguson, our political commentators on, talking about whether it is the answer to have more representation on this police force, african-american. of course, two-thirds of the community is african-american there. you have got three members of a 53-member police force that are black. but is that the solution, the come over their skin, or is it about something bigger?
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>> i think it is a combination of things. first of all, poppy, there is no one solution to this problem. i think what has exploded in ferguson is kind of a powder keg. over the last 60 days there have been four shootings of young african-american men across the country with law enforcement involved and all those young men were unarmed. so, i think what is exploding now is kind of a culmination of things and i think that's what is being felt right there in ferguson. 70% of the population african-american and yet, less than five of the 53 police officers are black or brown. now, that does not mean that if they hire and retain a more diverse workforce, there will be no problems, but certainly will bring a sense of forwardness and a sense of resolution to some of the racial inbalances currently felt in their community. >> let's hope we see peace on the streets tonight when that curfew takes effect at midknnim.
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the next hour of newsroom starts right now. 6 p.m. here on the east coast, you are in the cnn newsroom. i'm poppy harlow. thank you for being here. an motional male for justice came to an end, the crowd gathered in the wake of the death of michael brown, an unarmed teen killed by police one week ago. michael brown's parents were there. you see them walking to the podium, they did not speak but their lawyer spoke on their behalf. teachers of michael brown were there, friends, community members, all inside of this church in ferguson, which was standing room only, long lines outside of people waiting to get in, the uplifting song stood in sharp contrast to last night's protests where gunfire erupted and there were seven arrests on the streets much police say a protester is in critical condition after beingt